I recently finished my second pass through the DL Russian tree. When I realized that I wouldn’t learn much more by merely continuing to crunch through drills of short sentences, I decided to switch over to the *Golosa* series, a pair of textbooks that are the core of a two-year university sequence in Russian. (They are excellent books, and extensive audio and visual supplementary materials are available free on YouTube and on the textbook website.) Certainly, these books contain much more mater
Forum>Topic: Russian>Efficacy of Duolingo Russian?…
Efficacy of Duolingo Russian?: A personal noteqbeast956I recently finished my second pass through the DL Russian tree. When I realized that I wouldn’t learn much more by merely continuing to crunch through drills of short sentences, I decided to switch over to the Golosa series, a pair of textbooks that are the core of a two-year university sequence in Russian. (They are excellent books, and extensive audio and visual supplementary materials are available free on YouTube and on the textbook website.)
Certainly, these books contain much more material than is covered on Duolingo, but I was amazed at what a great head start DL had given me in vocabulary, grammar and aural comprehension. I’m cruising through the first textbook thanks to my solid DL foundation. I have thumbed through the second book, and I noted that many of the words and structures there are also familiar to me because of my online learning.
I had similarly pleasant experiences when I switched from DL Italian to the first-year college textbook Parliamo and when I went from DL German to Deutsch Heute, but my experience with the Russian switchover has been the most striking of all. So my thanks go out to the faithful Owl, to the Forum participants who so often helped alleviate my confusion, and especially to the course authors. Grazie, danke and спасибо.October 6, 2019
qbeast956
qbeast956
I recently finished my second pass through the DL Russian tree. When I realized that I wouldn’t learn much more by merely continuing to crunch through drills of short sentences, I decided to switch over to the Golosa series, a pair of textbooks that are the core of a two-year university sequence in Russian. (They are excellent books, and extensive audio and visual supplementary materials are available free on YouTube and on the textbook website.)
Certainly, these books contain much more material than is covered on Duolingo, but I was amazed at what a great head start DL had given me in vocabulary, grammar and aural comprehension. I’m cruising through the first textbook thanks to my solid DL foundation. I have thumbed through the second book, and I noted that many of the words and structures there are also familiar to me because of my online learning.
I had similarly pleasant experiences when I switched from DL Italian to the first-year college textbook Parliamo and when I went from DL German to Deutsch Heute, but my experience with the Russian switchover has been the most striking of all. So my thanks go out to the faithful Owl, to the Forum participants who so often helped alleviate my confusion, and especially to the course authors. Grazie, danke and спасибо.
October 6, 2019
24 CommentsGrant75861315This morning I reached the 4th “Checkpoint” on the Russian course, with all the Skills thus far all at Level 5.
I will revisit the practice levels for the next few days, then start tackling the final section of Skills. After this I had planned to do the reverse tree, but recently I’ve more and more moved towards the idea of continuing with Russian away from Duolingo.
A number of factors why: a big one is Duolingo’s obsession with promoting the leagues (which in many aspects, I think, are contary to language learning). I also noticed that the last 4 Skills immediately before the 4th Checkpoint only seem to have 4 lessons per level, even on Level 5.
I don’t know why that it is. Certainly on the Skill focusing on the use of бы and чтобы I could have done with the usual 20-30 lessons, and didn’t feel I learned this section as well as I would have liked.
I’m hoping that it’s not a sign of things to come, that the final part of the course is more “light-weight” (like the last 4 Skills I completed) making it look like Duo ran out of ideas or lost enthusiasm to continue.
Thanks for the tip. I’ll definitely check-out the Golosa textbooks you mentioned.October 6, 2019Seanchai35Unfortunately, reducing the number of lessons per skill was a site-wide decision to keep casual learners from getting too frustrated – Duolingo’s main concern these days is number of users/eyeballs on the site, not serious learners.who want to be able to drill skills till we’ve learned them cold. There are a lot of people upset about this change (I’m one of them, and it’s a regular topic of discussion on the boards, along with leagues promoting unhealthy/unhelpful learning behavior), but time will tell whether Duolingo will listen or not. They are, as they have always been, far more concerned with what their overall data trends tell them than they are with whether individual users finish a course actually functional in a language.
I realize that sounds like I’m dissatisfied with Duolingo and/or being unduly harsh on them, and neither is my intention – I first came here to learn Irish, and while the Irish tree is far from perfect, it remains one of the only free online Irish courses in existence, so I owe Duolingo a lot. Similarly, this isn’t my first go at Russian, and Duolingo was what got me started properly – but one of the things one has to get used to is that, to the powers that be at Duolingo, randomized A/B testing is holy writ, and if a particular change “tests” well in terms of keeping people on the site, they’ll keep the change even if it’s detrimental to learning. It’s frustrating, but it’s the cost of doing business, as it were.
Having said all that, I absolutely plan on just restarting my Russian tree from scratch as soon as I’ve got it “finished”… even with getting every skill to level 5 (as I am doing) there’s no way on earth that going through it once will give me enough practice now that they’ve so drastically cut the repetition back. The only fix for that, for now at least, is to delete your tree and start over from scratch.October 6, 2019Grant75861315I broadly agree with you Seanchai35.
Like you, I’m quite a fan of Duolingo – in the 14 months I’ve been using it, both my understanding of Russian, and my conversational ability in Russian have improved greatly.
But there is the element of Duolingo moving increasingly towards the gaming space, at the expense of time/resources for the system to support its original purpose: To help those of us who really want to learn a language.October 6, 2019Marc_GernaeyI do miss some basic Russian grammar explanation in duo lingo – would be easy to understand it slightly better without having to look it up in books or internet – otherwise still happy with DL RussianOctober 9, 2019Shady_arcModPlus623I tried to include basic grammar and notable vocabulary items in the Tips and Notes to each skill. Of course, they are still far from being textbook-level, otherwise most skills would have come with a wall of text (we preferred to keep them short).October 9, 2019Marc_Gernaeyoh great – I didn’t know the tips function – I see it on PC but not on the android app. Is that possible or should I look somewhere else?
Thanks already for the great tip!October 10, 2019[deactivated user]You did a good job not overwhelming us!January 8, 2020MoviaCarro302Interesting. I must re-read this as I struggle with Russian.October 6, 2019babak143903784Thanks for the post. I have wondered what I would do after finishing the Russian DL course. You seem to be happy with what you are learning from the Голоса books. Please keep up informed, would love to here about your progress.October 7, 2019MoacirSantana10Duolingo -> Short Videos / Texts -> Real conversation through text as you get used to it -> Speaking timeOctober 8, 2019DannyMalice1537I’ve had a quick search for the Golosa books. I see mixed reviews and very big prices. I’ll look into it more but I’m keen to give anything a go to improve my Russian.October 8, 2019evaleeenhttps://docs.google.com/document/d/166YfaIKQIgKpAYEhZH4URFybT7wAt5xLpLi-xJ2no3A/edit
They’re switching publishers so the latest edition (5th) is currently available for free until Dec 2020. Sorry–I know your post is old. August 22, 2020DannyMalice1537Thank you very much. This is very helpfulSeptember 5, 2020CedricCamp679I was wondering if it was in fact possible to learn Russian on Duolingo. I spent six years learning it in standard language classes once a week and am still taking regularly Italki conversation lessons just to maintain my level. I use Duolingo as a source of nice little exercises to refresh my vocabulary with the more advanced skills but I don’t think I could have learnt the grammar or the pronunciation this way. Congratulations if you managed it with Duo and a few grammar books, that’s impressive ! BTW If someone is interested in the links to websites, books or podcasts that I also used to learn Russian, don’t hesitate to ask me. April 20, 2020BrianCompt2Plus902Russian learning is my jam right now. Would love any tips or links you have to spare. I have many very valuable lingots in exchange!April 20, 2020Seanchai35Thanks for this post.
I’m just past the second checkpoint, so I’ve got quite a ways to go before I exhaust Duolingo, but, like most of us, I don’t use it as my only resource. I’ve found a wealth of audio and video resources already, as well as a few books geared for self-study that I like very much, but lately I’ve been on the hunt for an actual textbook with a course structure to it; I’m starting to reach the point where I feel like I’m developing my knowledge a little too piecemeal, and I’d rather have a solid structure to hang everything on so that I don’t end up with holes/fossilized mistakes/concepts that I have trouble transferring further on down the road. Голоса looks like exactly what I’ve been looking for. October 6, 2019qbeast956There have been five editions of the Golosa books. The 5th edition is quite pricy. I instead bought used copies of the 4th edition. I’m quite happy with them I haven’t been able to find cheap, unused copies of the parallel Student Activites Manual, but I seem to be learning enough without it. Good luck in your book hunt and in all things Russian.October 6, 2019Seanchai35Thanks, that’s good to know. I’m probably going to wait till I’m a little further down the tree before I start hitting textbooks with real vigor (as opposed to checking them for reference), but I went ahead and ordered some used 4th edition copies for myself so they’re there when I need them. The fact that you feel like you’re learning enough without the Activities Manual confirms my initial impressions about it; namely, that it’s probably nice to have, but not strictly necessary as long as one is willing to seek out other resources/opportunities to practice.
Thanks again for the help!October 7, 2019qbeast956Good luck with the books. I’d also suggest you head to the Golosa website and spend a half hour downloading the 4th edition audio. No telling how long that will be there. October 7, 2019NayTheChapagianPlusSounds inspiringOctober 7, 2019Cherenkovlight2thank you for this post and the book you habe suggested in it. October 7, 2019GGGGGeorgiaThanks for sharing your experience– and glad your learning is going well. :)October 7, 2019hardzalinterestingOctober 8, 2019BrianCompt2Plus902Great to hear!October 9, 2019
24 Comments
Grant75861315This morning I reached the 4th “Checkpoint” on the Russian course, with all the Skills thus far all at Level 5.
I will revisit the practice levels for the next few days, then start tackling the final section of Skills. After this I had planned to do the reverse tree, but recently I’ve more and more moved towards the idea of continuing with Russian away from Duolingo.
A number of factors why: a big one is Duolingo’s obsession with promoting the leagues (which in many aspects, I think, are contary to language learning). I also noticed that the last 4 Skills immediately before the 4th Checkpoint only seem to have 4 lessons per level, even on Level 5.
I don’t know why that it is. Certainly on the Skill focusing on the use of бы and чтобы I could have done with the usual 20-30 lessons, and didn’t feel I learned this section as well as I would have liked.
I’m hoping that it’s not a sign of things to come, that the final part of the course is more “light-weight” (like the last 4 Skills I completed) making it look like Duo ran out of ideas or lost enthusiasm to continue.
Thanks for the tip. I’ll definitely check-out the Golosa textbooks you mentioned.October 6, 2019Seanchai35Unfortunately, reducing the number of lessons per skill was a site-wide decision to keep casual learners from getting too frustrated – Duolingo’s main concern these days is number of users/eyeballs on the site, not serious learners.who want to be able to drill skills till we’ve learned them cold. There are a lot of people upset about this change (I’m one of them, and it’s a regular topic of discussion on the boards, along with leagues promoting unhealthy/unhelpful learning behavior), but time will tell whether Duolingo will listen or not. They are, as they have always been, far more concerned with what their overall data trends tell them than they are with whether individual users finish a course actually functional in a language.
I realize that sounds like I’m dissatisfied with Duolingo and/or being unduly harsh on them, and neither is my intention – I first came here to learn Irish, and while the Irish tree is far from perfect, it remains one of the only free online Irish courses in existence, so I owe Duolingo a lot. Similarly, this isn’t my first go at Russian, and Duolingo was what got me started properly – but one of the things one has to get used to is that, to the powers that be at Duolingo, randomized A/B testing is holy writ, and if a particular change “tests” well in terms of keeping people on the site, they’ll keep the change even if it’s detrimental to learning. It’s frustrating, but it’s the cost of doing business, as it were.
Having said all that, I absolutely plan on just restarting my Russian tree from scratch as soon as I’ve got it “finished”… even with getting every skill to level 5 (as I am doing) there’s no way on earth that going through it once will give me enough practice now that they’ve so drastically cut the repetition back. The only fix for that, for now at least, is to delete your tree and start over from scratch.October 6, 2019Grant75861315I broadly agree with you Seanchai35.
Like you, I’m quite a fan of Duolingo – in the 14 months I’ve been using it, both my understanding of Russian, and my conversational ability in Russian have improved greatly.
But there is the element of Duolingo moving increasingly towards the gaming space, at the expense of time/resources for the system to support its original purpose: To help those of us who really want to learn a language.October 6, 2019Marc_GernaeyI do miss some basic Russian grammar explanation in duo lingo – would be easy to understand it slightly better without having to look it up in books or internet – otherwise still happy with DL RussianOctober 9, 2019Shady_arcModPlus623I tried to include basic grammar and notable vocabulary items in the Tips and Notes to each skill. Of course, they are still far from being textbook-level, otherwise most skills would have come with a wall of text (we preferred to keep them short).October 9, 2019Marc_Gernaeyoh great – I didn’t know the tips function – I see it on PC but not on the android app. Is that possible or should I look somewhere else?
Thanks already for the great tip!October 10, 2019[deactivated user]You did a good job not overwhelming us!January 8, 2020MoviaCarro302Interesting. I must re-read this as I struggle with Russian.October 6, 2019babak143903784Thanks for the post. I have wondered what I would do after finishing the Russian DL course. You seem to be happy with what you are learning from the Голоса books. Please keep up informed, would love to here about your progress.October 7, 2019MoacirSantana10Duolingo -> Short Videos / Texts -> Real conversation through text as you get used to it -> Speaking timeOctober 8, 2019DannyMalice1537I’ve had a quick search for the Golosa books. I see mixed reviews and very big prices. I’ll look into it more but I’m keen to give anything a go to improve my Russian.October 8, 2019evaleeenhttps://docs.google.com/document/d/166YfaIKQIgKpAYEhZH4URFybT7wAt5xLpLi-xJ2no3A/edit
They’re switching publishers so the latest edition (5th) is currently available for free until Dec 2020. Sorry–I know your post is old. August 22, 2020DannyMalice1537Thank you very much. This is very helpfulSeptember 5, 2020CedricCamp679I was wondering if it was in fact possible to learn Russian on Duolingo. I spent six years learning it in standard language classes once a week and am still taking regularly Italki conversation lessons just to maintain my level. I use Duolingo as a source of nice little exercises to refresh my vocabulary with the more advanced skills but I don’t think I could have learnt the grammar or the pronunciation this way. Congratulations if you managed it with Duo and a few grammar books, that’s impressive ! BTW If someone is interested in the links to websites, books or podcasts that I also used to learn Russian, don’t hesitate to ask me. April 20, 2020BrianCompt2Plus902Russian learning is my jam right now. Would love any tips or links you have to spare. I have many very valuable lingots in exchange!April 20, 2020Seanchai35Thanks for this post.
I’m just past the second checkpoint, so I’ve got quite a ways to go before I exhaust Duolingo, but, like most of us, I don’t use it as my only resource. I’ve found a wealth of audio and video resources already, as well as a few books geared for self-study that I like very much, but lately I’ve been on the hunt for an actual textbook with a course structure to it; I’m starting to reach the point where I feel like I’m developing my knowledge a little too piecemeal, and I’d rather have a solid structure to hang everything on so that I don’t end up with holes/fossilized mistakes/concepts that I have trouble transferring further on down the road. Голоса looks like exactly what I’ve been looking for. October 6, 2019qbeast956There have been five editions of the Golosa books. The 5th edition is quite pricy. I instead bought used copies of the 4th edition. I’m quite happy with them I haven’t been able to find cheap, unused copies of the parallel Student Activites Manual, but I seem to be learning enough without it. Good luck in your book hunt and in all things Russian.October 6, 2019Seanchai35Thanks, that’s good to know. I’m probably going to wait till I’m a little further down the tree before I start hitting textbooks with real vigor (as opposed to checking them for reference), but I went ahead and ordered some used 4th edition copies for myself so they’re there when I need them. The fact that you feel like you’re learning enough without the Activities Manual confirms my initial impressions about it; namely, that it’s probably nice to have, but not strictly necessary as long as one is willing to seek out other resources/opportunities to practice.
Thanks again for the help!October 7, 2019qbeast956Good luck with the books. I’d also suggest you head to the Golosa website and spend a half hour downloading the 4th edition audio. No telling how long that will be there. October 7, 2019NayTheChapagianPlusSounds inspiringOctober 7, 2019Cherenkovlight2thank you for this post and the book you habe suggested in it. October 7, 2019GGGGGeorgiaThanks for sharing your experience– and glad your learning is going well. :)October 7, 2019hardzalinterestingOctober 8, 2019BrianCompt2Plus902Great to hear!October 9, 2019
Grant75861315This morning I reached the 4th “Checkpoint” on the Russian course, with all the Skills thus far all at Level 5.
I will revisit the practice levels for the next few days, then start tackling the final section of Skills. After this I had planned to do the reverse tree, but recently I’ve more and more moved towards the idea of continuing with Russian away from Duolingo.
A number of factors why: a big one is Duolingo’s obsession with promoting the leagues (which in many aspects, I think, are contary to language learning). I also noticed that the last 4 Skills immediately before the 4th Checkpoint only seem to have 4 lessons per level, even on Level 5.
I don’t know why that it is. Certainly on the Skill focusing on the use of бы and чтобы I could have done with the usual 20-30 lessons, and didn’t feel I learned this section as well as I would have liked.
I’m hoping that it’s not a sign of things to come, that the final part of the course is more “light-weight” (like the last 4 Skills I completed) making it look like Duo ran out of ideas or lost enthusiasm to continue.
Thanks for the tip. I’ll definitely check-out the Golosa textbooks you mentioned.October 6, 2019
Grant75861315
This morning I reached the 4th “Checkpoint” on the Russian course, with all the Skills thus far all at Level 5.
I will revisit the practice levels for the next few days, then start tackling the final section of Skills. After this I had planned to do the reverse tree, but recently I’ve more and more moved towards the idea of continuing with Russian away from Duolingo.
A number of factors why: a big one is Duolingo’s obsession with promoting the leagues (which in many aspects, I think, are contary to language learning). I also noticed that the last 4 Skills immediately before the 4th Checkpoint only seem to have 4 lessons per level, even on Level 5.
I don’t know why that it is. Certainly on the Skill focusing on the use of бы and чтобы I could have done with the usual 20-30 lessons, and didn’t feel I learned this section as well as I would have liked.
I’m hoping that it’s not a sign of things to come, that the final part of the course is more “light-weight” (like the last 4 Skills I completed) making it look like Duo ran out of ideas or lost enthusiasm to continue.
Thanks for the tip. I’ll definitely check-out the Golosa textbooks you mentioned.October 6, 2019
This morning I reached the 4th “Checkpoint” on the Russian course, with all the Skills thus far all at Level 5.
I will revisit the practice levels for the next few days, then start tackling the final section of Skills. After this I had planned to do the reverse tree, but recently I’ve more and more moved towards the idea of continuing with Russian away from Duolingo.
A number of factors why: a big one is Duolingo’s obsession with promoting the leagues (which in many aspects, I think, are contary to language learning). I also noticed that the last 4 Skills immediately before the 4th Checkpoint only seem to have 4 lessons per level, even on Level 5.
I don’t know why that it is. Certainly on the Skill focusing on the use of бы and чтобы I could have done with the usual 20-30 lessons, and didn’t feel I learned this section as well as I would have liked.
I’m hoping that it’s not a sign of things to come, that the final part of the course is more “light-weight” (like the last 4 Skills I completed) making it look like Duo ran out of ideas or lost enthusiasm to continue.
Thanks for the tip. I’ll definitely check-out the Golosa textbooks you mentioned.
October 6, 2019
October 6, 2019
Seanchai35Unfortunately, reducing the number of lessons per skill was a site-wide decision to keep casual learners from getting too frustrated – Duolingo’s main concern these days is number of users/eyeballs on the site, not serious learners.who want to be able to drill skills till we’ve learned them cold. There are a lot of people upset about this change (I’m one of them, and it’s a regular topic of discussion on the boards, along with leagues promoting unhealthy/unhelpful learning behavior), but time will tell whether Duolingo will listen or not. They are, as they have always been, far more concerned with what their overall data trends tell them than they are with whether individual users finish a course actually functional in a language.
I realize that sounds like I’m dissatisfied with Duolingo and/or being unduly harsh on them, and neither is my intention – I first came here to learn Irish, and while the Irish tree is far from perfect, it remains one of the only free online Irish courses in existence, so I owe Duolingo a lot. Similarly, this isn’t my first go at Russian, and Duolingo was what got me started properly – but one of the things one has to get used to is that, to the powers that be at Duolingo, randomized A/B testing is holy writ, and if a particular change “tests” well in terms of keeping people on the site, they’ll keep the change even if it’s detrimental to learning. It’s frustrating, but it’s the cost of doing business, as it were.
Having said all that, I absolutely plan on just restarting my Russian tree from scratch as soon as I’ve got it “finished”… even with getting every skill to level 5 (as I am doing) there’s no way on earth that going through it once will give me enough practice now that they’ve so drastically cut the repetition back. The only fix for that, for now at least, is to delete your tree and start over from scratch.October 6, 2019
Unfortunately, reducing the number of lessons per skill was a site-wide decision to keep casual learners from getting too frustrated – Duolingo’s main concern these days is number of users/eyeballs on the site, not serious learners.who want to be able to drill skills till we’ve learned them cold. There are a lot of people upset about this change (I’m one of them, and it’s a regular topic of discussion on the boards, along with leagues promoting unhealthy/unhelpful learning behavior), but time will tell whether Duolingo will listen or not. They are, as they have always been, far more concerned with what their overall data trends tell them than they are with whether individual users finish a course actually functional in a language.
I realize that sounds like I’m dissatisfied with Duolingo and/or being unduly harsh on them, and neither is my intention – I first came here to learn Irish, and while the Irish tree is far from perfect, it remains one of the only free online Irish courses in existence, so I owe Duolingo a lot. Similarly, this isn’t my first go at Russian, and Duolingo was what got me started properly – but one of the things one has to get used to is that, to the powers that be at Duolingo, randomized A/B testing is holy writ, and if a particular change “tests” well in terms of keeping people on the site, they’ll keep the change even if it’s detrimental to learning. It’s frustrating, but it’s the cost of doing business, as it were.
Having said all that, I absolutely plan on just restarting my Russian tree from scratch as soon as I’ve got it “finished”… even with getting every skill to level 5 (as I am doing) there’s no way on earth that going through it once will give me enough practice now that they’ve so drastically cut the repetition back. The only fix for that, for now at least, is to delete your tree and start over from scratch.
October 6, 2019
October 6, 2019
Grant75861315I broadly agree with you Seanchai35.
Like you, I’m quite a fan of Duolingo – in the 14 months I’ve been using it, both my understanding of Russian, and my conversational ability in Russian have improved greatly.
But there is the element of Duolingo moving increasingly towards the gaming space, at the expense of time/resources for the system to support its original purpose: To help those of us who really want to learn a language.October 6, 2019
I broadly agree with you Seanchai35.
Like you, I’m quite a fan of Duolingo – in the 14 months I’ve been using it, both my understanding of Russian, and my conversational ability in Russian have improved greatly.
But there is the element of Duolingo moving increasingly towards the gaming space, at the expense of time/resources for the system to support its original purpose: To help those of us who really want to learn a language.
October 6, 2019
October 6, 2019
Marc_GernaeyI do miss some basic Russian grammar explanation in duo lingo – would be easy to understand it slightly better without having to look it up in books or internet – otherwise still happy with DL RussianOctober 9, 2019
I do miss some basic Russian grammar explanation in duo lingo – would be easy to understand it slightly better without having to look it up in books or internet – otherwise still happy with DL Russian
October 9, 2019
October 9, 2019
Shady_arcModPlus623I tried to include basic grammar and notable vocabulary items in the Tips and Notes to each skill. Of course, they are still far from being textbook-level, otherwise most skills would have come with a wall of text (we preferred to keep them short).October 9, 2019
I tried to include basic grammar and notable vocabulary items in the Tips and Notes to each skill. Of course, they are still far from being textbook-level, otherwise most skills would have come with a wall of text (we preferred to keep them short).
October 9, 2019
October 9, 2019
Marc_Gernaeyoh great – I didn’t know the tips function – I see it on PC but not on the android app. Is that possible or should I look somewhere else?
Thanks already for the great tip!October 10, 2019
oh great – I didn’t know the tips function – I see it on PC but not on the android app. Is that possible or should I look somewhere else?
Thanks already for the great tip!
October 10, 2019
October 10, 2019
[deactivated user]You did a good job not overwhelming us!January 8, 2020
This website is a forum where anyone can discuss things related to language learning, and how to do it in apps such as Duolingo or Babbel for instance.
